# 🇸🇾 Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Reasonably serious discussion\ **Created:** [6 November 2015 23:32 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281 "2015-11-06T23:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![pap](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/pap/32/74795_2.png) [@pap](https://www.sotonians.com/u/pap)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 20:47 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/681 "2018-04-17T20:47:30Z")
Russia does what any nation state is supposed to do. It looks after its national interests. Every leader of every country says that is what they do, regardless of whether they do it or not. You don’t need to be a genius to work out what Russia’s national interest in Syria is. You just need to know a bit about their history, a bit about the present and a bit about their fears. These are lands that have been under constant invasion, whether it was the establishment of the Russian Empire itself, or the existential threats rolling through Eastern Europe onto their steppes, significantly three times in the last 250 years. In the last war, millions of Soviets died in a war of movement, often encircled by Nazi forces and destroyed in the _kessel_. I’d say these people have a historical fear of being surrounded. The Second World War brought a lot of territory under Soviet rule. The post-Communist era, particularly the drunken haze of Yeltsin’s reign, saw both influence and territory fall away. The buffer zone that Stalin and Churchill shook hands on during the infamous Percentage Paper deal wasn’t just Stalin being greedy. It was a means of ensuring that Western armies would have a much longer trip to Moscow. Putin doesn’t enjoy the buffer zone Stalin and his successors did. In its place are a load of nationalist, newly capitalist countries that really hate the Russians, letting NATO do multi-army exercises on their front lawn. Furthermore, the EU were not happy with the stuff they already had. Russia is not going to let its southern borders go quite so meekly, hence the propping up of Syria and Iran, two states the West has had a long “regime change” interest in. Historically, that has resulted in large, ungoverned spaces which become breeding grounds for extremism and sources of refugees, be it Iraq, Libya, Ukraine or Syria. ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 20:50 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/682 "2018-04-17T20:50:55Z")
Maybe but anyone relying on an unreliable person to power their nation is a moron, Russia is panicking over shale and US exports to the EU/Europe there by lessening its power within hence this, it does make me laugh some of the shite written here about how bad we are and how good or innocent the Russians are. Just look at what they have done in wars in Afghanistan and Chechyna, they’re facts by the way, not written by a snowflake 1000’s of miles away. ---
**Author:** ![Goatboy](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/goatboy/32/167_2.png) [@Goatboy](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Goatboy)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 20:53 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/683 "2018-04-17T20:53:08Z")
Our record in Afghanistan is awesome eh bazza? ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 20:56 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/684 "2018-04-17T20:56:54Z")
I read the first line and have to pull you up straight away, Russia looks after European Russia, Eastern Russia is a distant thought. The second bit is Russia has always been invaded as its flat, why did they and the Germans carve up Poland? To answer the rest you’ll find an answer in this question. How many warm water ports has Russia got? ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 21:00 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/685 "2018-04-17T21:00:47Z")
Eerrr no but that wasn’t the point and compared to what the Soviets did? Go on have a look, the motives as well were totally different. ---
**Author:** ![Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/saint-or-sinner/32/64280_2.png) [@Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Saint-or-sinner)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 21:06 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/686 "2018-04-17T21:06:50Z")
So definitely don’t go with America then? > Russia is panicking over shale and US exports to the EU/Europe there by lessening its power within hence this, Yeah, i’d be worried as well, if the customer is stupid enough to go for the 3x cost option, that will run out sooner, from the most unstable person imaginable. They must think we are mental. > it does make me laugh some of the shite written here about how bad we are and how good or innocent the Russians are. We are bad though Barry. I believe your claim to be a history buff, so i also believe that you already know that. Who wrote about how good Russia are? > Just look at what they have done in wars in Afghanistan and Chechyna, they’re facts by the way, not written by a snowflake 1000’s of miles away. Like the western snowflakes writing about gas attacks in Syria. Those kind? ---
**Author:** ![pap](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/pap/32/74795_2.png) [@pap](https://www.sotonians.com/u/pap)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 21:12 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/687 "2018-04-17T21:12:55Z")
@barry-sanchez Maggie seemed perfectly capable of taking part in military action to save a community of 3k in the Falklands while entirely not giving a shit about millions of Britons not living in the South East of England, rural heartlands or northern marginals. I don’t understand your objection in the context of our own experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 21:13 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/688 "2018-04-17T21:13:10Z")
1. You could be right there so have a plan. 2. You do know the shale in the US is huge, its not running out anytime soon and it’ll become cheaper if they build somewhere to put it in the UK (I am saying that, not anyone else mind…). 3. Russia aren’t good, we’re not perfect but I know were I’d rather live and be, you? 4. Russia and Syria have form for gas attacks, as a sidenote where does Novichok come from? You genuinely don’t believe they have involvement, you’ll be telling me it was the Bulgarians murdering on behalf of the Soviet Union was nothing to do with the Kremlin next. ---
**Author:** ![Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/saint-or-sinner/32/64280_2.png) [@Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Saint-or-sinner)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 21:26 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/689 "2018-04-17T21:26:40Z")
This is big thing for them i believe. ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 21:29 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/690 "2018-04-17T21:29:30Z")
You think? ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 21:42 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/691 "2018-04-17T21:42:39Z")
That is a childish naive way of viewing things, you’re shaping one thing to argue against another that bears no relevance, what has the Falkland Islands got to do with Russia desire to EXPAND and have more influence in arena’s in the World? Putin isn’t rescuing or going to war openly to win an election, he rigged it last month. Your point is quite frankly shite as there is no point to it. ---
**Author:** ![pap](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/pap/32/74795_2.png) [@pap](https://www.sotonians.com/u/pap)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 21:53 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/692 "2018-04-17T21:53:25Z")
Again, I’m at a loss to surmise how your points are germane to my post or your subsequent response. To pick some of the more relevant cherries in an irrelevant mess, I find your hypothetical question of where I’d rather live a bit of a nonsense and a non starter. I’m fucking British, you plum. I speak English, all my mates are here, I’m only legal to work here and don’t speak Russian. My choice, rather predictably, is here. Your last point about Russia and Syria having form for these attacks has no evidence behind it. Sadly, there are numerous examples of what I think you could justifiably call chemical weapons, be it Agent Orange, the stuff we helped Saddam develop in the 1980s, white phosphorous or depleted uranium shells, either used or facilitated by Western countries in the last 50 years. Even if you had the Russians and Syrians bang to rights on prior form, which you don’t, the countries complaining about this uncrossable line have stepped over it plenty of times themselves, pretend they haven’t and vow to crush anyone committing the sin. It’s been total hypocrisy for the past half decade. ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 22:05 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/693 "2018-04-17T22:05:55Z")
Pap, I think you better check concerning Syria’s and Russia’s invlovement in chemical attacks, go and check the facts and come back. I’ll call you Burgess and SOS Maclean… ---
**Author:** ![Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/saint-or-sinner/32/64280_2.png) [@Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Saint-or-sinner)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 22:10 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/694 "2018-04-17T22:10:27Z")
Good straight forward answers Barry. 1. I know how to hunt and gather. Could be a valuable skill soon. 2. It’s not economically huge though(EROI is shit and won’t get better). Building somewhere to store it, is in itself a huge energy investment and wouldn’t get us much beyond the “9 meals to anarchy” scenario. We live in a purely profit motivated society remember. 3. Historically, at least in a global sense, we destroy Russia in the numbers of people, cultures and environments annihilated. I believe we actually top the world historical shitbag chart. Where i’d rather live is a hard one, but i’ll go for Asia. Going to take more thought to pin it down, but somewhere as untouched by western madness as possible(i would like an Internet connection if possible). 1. Form? You have evidence? Link please. As a side note, where does Sarin or VX come from, or even BZ? You don’t believe we’ve had involvement although we’ve been in country for a number of years. Next you’ll be telling me the Al Nusra front murdering on behalf of Western governments had nothing to do with the lies and cover ups being told to hide the evil we rained on these people. Lots of people playing lots of games on all sides, with the only guarantee being, the poorest with the most right to peace where they live, will suffer the most, purely to fulfil the desires of richer nations and that makes us shitbags of the highest order whichever way you look at it. ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 22:17 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/695 "2018-04-17T22:17:53Z")
Soviets in Afghanistan, thats been proven. The right to peace is correct but also has to extend to your opponent and opposite not solely the same. Ask questions SOS, but don’t hide them when trying to answer a question yourself ie you don’t answer a question by asking one. Keep them separate. ---
**Author:** ![Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/saint-or-sinner/32/64280_2.png) [@Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Saint-or-sinner)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 22:29 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/696 "2018-04-17T22:29:51Z")
No, i said believe, because i also believe that i don’t know enough to claim it as fact. Willing to learn more, but keep it as impartial as you can. I mainly read about these things because they always tie in with the subject that is my main interest. ---
**Author:** ![Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/saint-or-sinner/32/64280_2.png) [@Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Saint-or-sinner)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 22:41 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/697 "2018-04-17T22:41:07Z")
British(English really) everywhere that’s had the misfortune of meeting us on their own soil. Just look at Churchill the gasser. > The right to peace is correct but also has to extend to your opponent and opposite not solely the same. That’s going to be so hard for humanity, unless you can find an alien we can jointly hate. > Ask questions SOS, but don’t hide them when trying to answer a question yourself ie you don’t answer a question by asking one. > > Keep them separate. Likewise, but yes correct. ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 22:41 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/698 "2018-04-17T22:41:27Z")
If you don’t know about the Soviets/Russias desire for a warm water port into a major ocean I suggest you do, many of their wars are over such a thing. You can’t be a seriously global power without ports, how did Britain have an Empire? You may change your cuddly perception of the Russians, I have had a chuckle at some of the tin foil stuff on this and the Salisbury thread though. ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 22:44 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/699 "2018-04-17T22:44:49Z")
Now if Iran closed the Straits of Hormuz there’ll be a global conflict in a day… ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [17 April 2018 22:50 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281/700 "2018-04-17T22:50:11Z")
Or there is an incident in the Strait of Mallaca and there was a blockade China would act without hesitation. [Previous page](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281.md?page=34) [Next page](https://www.sotonians.com/t/syria/3281.md?page=36)