# 🇮🇱 Israel **URL:** \ **Category:** News and current events\ **Created:** [7 February 2018 20:41 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728 "2018-02-07T20:41:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Goatboy](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/goatboy/32/167_2.png) [@Goatboy](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Goatboy)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 16:11 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/282 "2019-03-05T16:11:08Z")
> **[Tory party suspends 14 members for posting Islamophobic or racist comments...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-islamophobia-racism-suspended-member-conservatives-a8808571.html)** > > Exclusive: Comments include calling for Muslims to be 'turfed out of public office' ---
**Author:** ![Goatboy](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/goatboy/32/167_2.png) [@Goatboy](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Goatboy)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 16:23 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/283 "2019-03-05T16:23:44Z")
Maybe we should have a separate Tommy’s Knockers thread but I will pop this here for now. > **[Journalist calls police as Tommy Robinson makes video at his home](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/05/journalist-makes-police-complaint-about-tommy-robinson)** > > Ukip adviser appears outside Mike Stuchbery’s address after legal letter delivered to him ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 17:02 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/284 "2019-03-05T17:02:06Z")
He represents a popular view I assume otherwise he wouldn’t get so many views on the media he was banned from? He is popular there are no doubts about it, I don’t like him in the slightest nor his views but banning him from things won’t help and its totally against freedom of speech, right to offend and the right to be offended. I’ll say this again, religion is worse yet excused, why? ---
**Author:** ![Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/saint-or-sinner/32/64280_2.png) [@Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Saint-or-sinner)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 17:55 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/285 "2019-03-05T17:55:38Z")
He is being promoted not banned. Again, there are far more popular people about that get no public voice. I’d like to know who funds him(do they know which name to use?) and how he got into the public debate. All i’ve seen of him, shows him up as an agenda driven right winger that likes apartheid(facts, not so much). So apart from being a voice of racism/apartheid against one particular kind of person, what’s popular(assuming you believe that’s popular)? Is he being paid by isreal maybe? I’d agree on the free speach, but you’d then have to rely on all sides getting a fair voice from the press and that’s not going to happen unfortunately. Some religions are excused completely, some less so, but i would happily agree to crack down on all, when needed. That’d be interesting in quite a few countries, from all parts of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 18:03 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/286 "2019-03-05T18:03:40Z")
On Israel, you do know there are many on both sides of the argument want a two state solution and many dislike and hate their respective “leaders”? Hamas is not a universally liked organisation and is stone age backward when it comes to gays and womens rights. Do you forget that as I trust you know this? ---
**Author:** ![pap](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/pap/32/74795_2.png) [@pap](https://www.sotonians.com/u/pap)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 18:13 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/287 "2019-03-05T18:13:18Z")
Barry, I’m not sure you’ve noticed this, but SoS is attempting to have a _discussion_ with you, not a fight. ---
**Author:** ![Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/saint-or-sinner/32/64280_2.png) [@Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Saint-or-sinner)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 18:22 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/288 "2019-03-05T18:22:22Z")
There are many on both sides in each and every country the world over and nothing is as backwards as the mass murder of innocents(white phosphorus on children playing football in a school). There’s your backward looking people for you. I don’t agree with a two state carve up, that suits only one. One democratic state for all that truly belong there, is the only fair and honest solution. Before you say it, that has as much chance of them agreeing, if the non democratic entity was to be honest. They’ll just ignore whatever is put to them, keep killing innocents and the west will try to pretend it doesn’t know, or if forced to open its eyes, make some perverse, illogical excuse, for the death of more young children found guilty of no more than being the wrong religion. Truly backwards isn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![Intiniki](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/intiniki/32/9_2.png) [@Intiniki](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Intiniki)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 18:31 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/289 "2019-03-05T18:31:16Z")
I was wondering if we had a rise of the far right thread for this sort if stuff. ---
**Author:** ![pap](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/pap/32/74795_2.png) [@pap](https://www.sotonians.com/u/pap)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 18:32 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/290 "2019-03-05T18:32:10Z")
Despite my voting out of the European Union, blocs have their uses. I think that whole region, including Israel and Saudi Arabia, should be a bloc with a nominally secular federal government, dedicated to preserving the sanctity of what are holy lands to many and allowing access to religious pilgrims. If that sounds far fetched, all those countries were part of one bloc 150 years ago. Also, it was only when the most extreme adherents claiming to practice either Judaism or Islam took over the holy sites that the trouble really started. I wouldn’t put the Saudi and Israeli authorities in charge of a popsicle stand, let alone trust them as suitable custodians for the holy sites of three major religions. ---
**Author:** ![Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/saint-or-sinner/32/64280_2.png) [@Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Saint-or-sinner)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 18:44 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/291 "2019-03-05T18:44:33Z")
Definitely on the rise. I looked at YouTube again and the third video was Enoch Powell. Then some sneeky ones were slipped in. Would be interesting to see if it’s as widespread as it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 18:56 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/292 "2019-03-05T18:56:12Z")
Religious doctrine and backwards cultures is what got us here, Israel are at fault no doubt but Hamas calling for the destruction of Israel and failing to recognise it hardly forwards their cause, their human rights issues are appalling and religion led, even Israel for all its ills has progressed from that. Two state is the only solution but Hamas and the right wing Israelis won’t agree it, the person on the ground probably would if it meant peace. ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 18:57 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/293 "2019-03-05T18:57:13Z")
Sunni and Shia? Ha Ha , never they hate each other more than the Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Cobham-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/cobham-saint/32/99252_2.png) [@Cobham-Saint](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Cobham-Saint)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 18:58 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/294 "2019-03-05T18:58:12Z")
So you are saying the EU as bloc has its uses? ---
**Author:** ![pap](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/pap/32/74795_2.png) [@pap](https://www.sotonians.com/u/pap)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 19:06 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/295 "2019-03-05T19:06:40Z")
Why is all mention of Powell made in context of three infamous words from one speech in Birmingham, 1968? Don’t get me wrong. I thought exactly the same way too, but in watching a series of lectures from Gresham College on politicians I was forced to re-evaluate my assessment of him. [![](https://discourse-sotonians-uploads.s3.dualstack.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/original/3X/1/2/126f4248cdb47d22009dc954db485ae1fc6d3b44.jpeg "Enoch Powell and the Sovereignty of Parliament - Professor Vernon Bogdanor") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCpfIqQsBGQ) ---
**Author:** ![Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/saint-or-sinner/32/64280_2.png) [@Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Saint-or-sinner)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 19:19 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/296 "2019-03-05T19:19:02Z")
> [@Barry-Sanchez](#): > > Religious doctrine and backwards cultures is what got us here, Yeah, that’s Christianity for you. > [@Barry-Sanchez](#): > > Israel are at fault no doubt Yes they are. No doubt at all. > [@Barry-Sanchez](#): > > but Hamas I sense a whataboutery attack, so stopped there, as comparing the two, is like saying a firework is as bad as an atom bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Polski\_Filip](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/polski_filip/32/75318_2.png) [@Polski\_Filip](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Polski_Filip)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 19:19 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/297 "2019-03-05T19:19:38Z")
I went to one of his lectures when I was at school it was actually on inflation and money supply. Totally mesmerising, one of the great political minds and as you say @pap apart from those 3 words being so badly wrong his actual speech at that time was prescient. ---
**Author:** ![Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/saint-or-sinner/32/64280_2.png) [@Saint-or-sinner](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Saint-or-sinner)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 19:23 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/298 "2019-03-05T19:23:27Z")
Yeah, fair point. He was an intelligent man. I went back to YouTube to see what the video was, but it’s all changed again(lots of anti Russia) ---
**Author:** ![Won-Ton](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/won-ton/32/68_2.png) [@Won-Ton](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Won-Ton)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 20:03 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/299 "2019-03-05T20:03:55Z")
150 years ago the region was part of a colonial empire ruled from Istanbul, not a bloc or federation. You also seem to be forgetting that Jews were expelled from Palestine and the Temple destroyed during the reign of Vespasian in 79AD. For almost 2000 years the Jewish population was relatively low until the 19th century. I think the Crusades were when the trouble really started, until then the Christian and Jewish populations were largely left alone to worship as they saw fit and Muslims were not seen as a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/barry-sanchez/32/76_2.png) [@Barry-Sanchez](https://www.sotonians.com/u/Barry-Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 20:11 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/300 "2019-03-05T20:11:42Z")
You can’t bring yourself to comment on some of the wrongs Hamas has done, now doubt you’ll deny this as propaganda [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/) Life is a bit more complicated than black and white, you say a one state solution, what would happen in a one state solution? ---
**Author:** ![pap](https://www.sotonians.com/user_avatar/www.sotonians.com/pap/32/74795_2.png) [@pap](https://www.sotonians.com/u/pap)\ **Post date:** [5 March 2019 20:15 UTC](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728/301 "2019-03-05T20:15:09Z")
I’m using bloc in the loose sense of a collection of nation states. An empire certainly qualifies under that description. That colonial empire ruled from Istanbul managed to make less of a fucking mess of it than colonial white settlers long after colonial white settlers were fashionable, or the muppets we propped up in Saudi Arabia. [Previous page](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728.md?page=14) [Next page](https://www.sotonians.com/t/israel/2728.md?page=16)