Iâve ploughed through practically everything youâve posted on this thread, and I can honestly say that Iâm still none the wiser about anything you want to happen, or to be done, other than you want everyone else to admit that theyâre racists. Youâre arguing passionately for something to be done without ever specifying what that something is. Iâve noticed that quite a few commentators use much the same approach as yourself, but you use ever more meaningless phrases to convey precisely nothing.
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You make a valid point Scotty. Perhaps we could start a new thread on how to go about changing the status quo.
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I retract my comment 
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Please
Just spent a long time reading through this entire thread, right from Papâs OP. And here are all my cards on the table (@pap beware this is going to be long, maybe Iâll record it and send it to you as a podcast).
I feel I am better informed on the BLM movement than when it first came to my attention 3 or 4 years ago. For example, my first response back then was âall lives matterâ, a statement that has 2 very different connotations depending on the context; apropos of nothing it is a simple, beautiful and very truthful sentiment, this is how my mind first processed this thought. In the context of being a response to the BLM movement I think MrTrampoline summed it up best (in a very reasoned and civilised discussion with Pap):
I still believe all lives matter as a standalone statement (who wouldnât), but I will disagree with anyone (most recently my Dad) who uses it as a counter to BLM, using some of the points above to educate those around me.
The protests.
I agree with them and fully support peopleâs right to protest, from the mass protests on the streets to taking a knee before sporting events, I have not actively engaged in either of those things - I do not feel this makes me part of the problem.
I feel that protesting is a very personal activity, and it can have an effect on many different levels and take many different forms, but for me the thought process must be âfree formedâ and the engagement âfree willedâ. Shaming people for not engaging or labelling them as âpart of the problemâ is counter productive in my eyes (Lewis Hamilton Iâm looking at you), discussion and education is for me more effective, and once I became more educated the shame was self generated - shame that I was so unaware of how badly black people are treated in todayâs society. I am fully aware the discussion and education part doesnât work so well with certain government officials, and alternative/more disruptive methods are required to get things moving.
What do we do about it?
1/ At some point in this thread Baz and Map managed to agree and disagree about school reform in the same 2 posts, quite an achievement even for them. I think educating the youngsters has to be our highest priority, as I donât feel this will change for the better any time soon, we must teach the new generation and hope things will change for the better in the future. Sadly I cannot see this problem being eradicated in my lifetime.
2/ Donât have someone who uses racist language as PM/President.
3/ Stand up for your convictions, and if you donât understand someoneâs elseâs convictions ask them to clarify, donât shout them down, then discussions develop, then hopefully we can progress forwards. Too many discussions (especially on forums) breakdown because of misinterpretation or disagreements on semantics.
4/ Be a bit more than ânot a racistâ. Being not a racist should be the entry standard, combatting it involves gestures both big and small.
Honourable mentions.
A few people have gotten a bit of stick on this thread (and remember I have just read through ALL OF IT), some unfairly in my mind. @scotty has consistently posted in support of BLM and an interesting article highlighting the hypocrisy of the tea industry in the UK (which no-one liked), however he gets accused in a round-about way of batting for the wrong team.
@Barry-Sanchez has also received some pelters despite regularly decrying slavery and the beneficiaries of the appalling slave trade (this may be down to his sometimes âdifficult to followâ posting style, sorry Baz).
Finally (thanks to those of you who have stuck around), hereâs a summary of who I am.
-40(ish) White male.
-Health professional(ish).
-Dark/gallows sense of humour (like many in the health industry), I reserve the right to joke about things that people may not like me joking about, but if they tell me they donât like it I will not force that sense of humour upon them (fortunately I am witty in lotâs of ways).
-Conservative in some aspects of life, liberal in others, if I had to label it Iâd be mostly centre/left whilst occasionally dipping my toe into the right.
-Not religious (The first thing me and Baz ever agreed on was that all religion is a bad thing, it was a beautiful moment).
If youâve stuck with it this far then thank you, and hopefully you know a bit more about me and my stance on this. Feel free to challenge any aspect of it.
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Did Keats or Wilde inspire you this evening?
The prose on the above should be taken by Socrates or Plato and decimated and taught to young Shakespeare enthusiastâs.
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It was the âapropos of nothingâ part wasnât it?
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Which I stole from Sheryl Crow.
The one thing the extreme left do not consider and wonât when it comes to boat people is if we welcome them we condemn illegals to more of the same, exploitation, undocumented working conditions which means terrible and often no protection.
Now imagine having to work if you have Covid with no rights, no union to help, guide and protect you?
But said you actually read it and take in the message
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All he wants to do is have some fun.
I get the feeling heâs not the only one.
On a lighter note, I put this on today, the issue is I forgot bikes arenât level when held so rowing Iâm going to take my head off if Iâm not careful on the chainset.
Black bikes matter?
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You mean refugees?
That we helped create? That are fleeing persecution and war?
I completely agree that they face a hostile environment, but that is fuck all to do with the âextreme leftâ, whoever that is.
That is government policy.
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I take it you still havenât accepted that Iraq were poised to unleash a torrent of WMD onto our unprotected bonces, and that you continue to doubt the word of St Anthony of Blair. 
Itâs sceptics like you that sow the seeds of mistrust in our leaders. 
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Itâs weird, but the only weapons of mass destruction were the ones they took themselves.
This is why I get so fucked off with people who moan about refugees. They seem to think they appear from nowhere and theyâre all on the make.
In truth, most refugees come from or through destabilised regions weâve managed to help create, whether it was Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya. The latter was a particularly big generator of refugees as not only did it create Libyan refugees - it also opened up routes for Sudanese and Eritrean refugees.
The whole world has a duty to refugees, and if battered Lebanon can handle 1.5 million in its borders, we can cope with a few thousand that the Europeans have helpfully allowed to get all the way to the French coast.
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UK Governments as a whole listen to what the country is saying. Sometimes they take note and act upon the mood of the country.Difficult at the moment as we are all over the place. The BLM movement is a prime example. It has caused many heated arguments as it would seem to some to be racism against us whites. To others it is what it is supposed to be, BAME members asking for equal rights.
For me it started out as enraged blacks took to the streets after George Floyd was brutally arrested leading to his death. Some like me have said what about the whites savagely murdered by blacks. Yes I know many blacks have died at police hands but without full knowledge of how we can not make a learned decision on how or why.
I have now changed my stance as in the main it appears that the anger is mainly against authority. The fact is that many whites are getting involved in the protests.
Ironically we are all arguing for an answer to the problem. Not always from the same viewpoint but still searching for the answer. I still believe that education starting from birth is needed. Pre-school at the latest. We also need more BAME members in our police, ambulance, fire service and armed forces and positions of power.
Before this can happen though we must change the way we behave ourselves through our police etcetera towards all BAME people. All police should wear a camera as a part of essential equipment at all times. I feel that this one move could stop a lot of police brutality actions and claims.
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Where do they all come from? How many are from Africa?
And in turn propagating an illegal industry full of misery.
What boils my piss is the pseudo-vigilante groups whining about a few refugees getting put up in hotels while accommodation is found for them. Our laws decide whether or not they are entitled to stay here, they arrive with nothing, what are we supposed to do? Give them sleeping bags and point them towards the nearest town centre? FFS. They are either eligible for shelter here or they arenât, if they are then we can at least make sure they are treated humanely.
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