As I said at the start, not much point in continuing whilst there seems to be a desire to maintain a system of labelling and differentiation based on an phenotypic variation that has no scientific basis.
I would suggest that folks do read up on the concepts that race is a social construct with no biological basis and recognise that this continued use of labels will mean we never rid ourselves of this issueā¦
None of this detracts from the fact that we as whites are in the majority in the UK. That does not give us the right to abuse other races(?). In the same way it does not give our ethnic brothers the right to react violently as they do frequently. Yes they have been downtrodden for centuries but so have the poorer whites.
When I say we need to bring their leaders into the decision making for the betterment of all I mean it. It is not a racist statement.
It amuses me when I hear people slagging of the French, German, Spanish etcetera when regarding them in stereotype which is also racism but some would disagree.
Racism has caused many problems in the world not just in UK and USA. In same way rich have always taken from the poor. I lived in Brixton for 18 years. Some 25 years ago a new estate was built near the southern end of Brixton Road. The vast majority of the houses were given to our coloured friends. Within a couple of years any whites given a house there had pleaded to be moved.
M.o.P do you honestly believe that if the blacks were in the majority they would treat us any better than we treat them?
As I said previously the only way forward is for all of us to get together once and for all to begin the healing process if that is what is needed. That means we need to interact with the BAME leaders to search for a solution. Instructing the police not to stop and search is never going to work but to do it in a way that not just a young black driver is stopped at whim could. it is possible to find answers if we look hard enough. Question is do our leaders Red or Blue want to. I somehow doubt it personally.
Is it just me who has an issue with these statements and terminology?
Anyway, enjoy your ādiscussionā. My turn not to be ācomfortableā with this place.
Iāve more issue with you cherry picking bits you find objectionable and quoting them out of context.
Whatās wrong with āethnicā? I used to understand why ācolouredā was offensive, but donāt see how it can be when āpeople of colourā exists as a positive term.
You yourself seem to be fine with the idea of āblacksā as a race, so what is wrong with āwhitesā?
How should it be phrased then? You go on about the usage of words but not about the statement itself. Facts are facts. Almost if not every time there has been a black death at the hands of the police we end up with riots. I have black friends who are as appalled as me by some of the after effects of a death at the hands of the police. Unnecessary violence will always work against the perpetrators. I agree with them that they need to see justice but sometimes the picture is not as clear as it seems at first. The police are often given information by the public which they act upon. The information is not always true or correct at that time. Not making excuses for the OB but sometimes we only see what we are led to believe. Yes that works both ways.
That you whole posting style in a nutshell Pap, so please at least acknowledge that!
And in this case where nuance is so critical, i believe its wholly justified and certainly not āout of contextā
You.re view is an idealist one, no colour only people, I agree with that, I do but I also agree with there are races on this planet, your view would be wholly unpopular in other parts of the World. Most parts of the World are held together by despots and tyrants keeping everyone stapled to the ground, you live in a dreamland.
Only with you, because you have a tendency to vomit up your posts without really considering what it is youāve just written.
As @Furball once said, you need an editor.
Maybe, I tend to post a little more than necessary, but its never without thoughtā¦ I suspect it because you dont agree that youāre are simply more criticalā¦ but your tendency to be selective is not just applied to me but any post where you select what you feel you can answer and ignore the questions or POV where you cantā¦
Iām partially sighted. I honestly donāt read all of your posts.
I suspect a lot of people are in the same TL;DR camp.
Again you are being suggestive as opposed to reasoningā¦ I may have an idealist view, but this is NOT what this is about. We ARE all visually different, and that is great and to be celebrated. What should NOT is classification of people based on that appearance when it has no scientific or biological basis. There is greater genotypic variation within your so called racial groups.
So a view becomes less valid because despots might find it unpopular? That is the point, the differentiation of peoples based purely on a social construct to validate their political models/approachesā¦
Lets start with the concept of freedom of choice to decide how āWEā protest against racism. To me the simple fact that we have a thread in which I would guess 100% are white 'privileged ā folks are discussing the various justifications for NOT supporting a form of protest is exactly part of the problemā¦ we want to play only by our own rules that make us more comfortable, as opposed to those determined by the very folks who have the biggest stake in the protest? Why is that?
Why is it for us as to determine how this protest should look? If we are truly supportive of these aims and are equally not happy with the status quo, then we start by not insisting the protest is wrongā¦ thats its becoming weaker, that its about choiceā¦ all the language that undermines itā¦ just as the āall lives matterā bullshit didā¦ white privileged folks looking to dictate the terms. Sorry, but if we are genuine about supporting this protest, we should be more concerned about ensuring it remains as valid and as high on the agenda as possible, not trying to own it and make it about our own choicesā¦
Next up, is a bit of a comment on BaggySaints language choices. I did not want to single anyone out, and I am doing so only as an example, not as a criticism of Baggy Saint Now if I am wrong, apologies, but the use of the correct terminology in this discussion is criticalā¦ a few examples:
we must start by getting more ethnic people into high positions in the police and also in local councils and government. Let our BAME people see that we are trying to help bring equality all round.
Their are Black leaders that we should be using to calm the situation and help guide the move to a level playing field for all. We need them on board and must do all we can to stop the bloodshed.
Sentiment is solid, but āthemā and āwe should be usingā, āwe need them on boardā ā¦
This is the language of dictating the terms, of making it about our decisions and choices. Its very subtle, but we need to understand that this protest is also about the perception we give that once again us privilged white folks will dictate the future society
Next up, perhaps more significantly
Sadly wherever we go in the world there will be racism, tribe versus tribe is a part of life. Saints v Pompey is a weak example but every country suffers from it. News tells a regular story of warfare between tribes of same country.
There will always be rich and poor. Those that have and those that donāt. Always jealousy of others.
Racism is not the same as tribalism and sorry but using a local football rivalry is a bit crass here. Tribal conflicts are typically driven by territory, poverty, religious intolerance etcā¦ Wars and hatred over ethnic (genetic) purity is something that is much more typical of our āmodernā western world - its roots in the slavery of the past, the misguided and ignorant sense of racial superiorityā¦Itās important not to confuse this. Its is also important not to confuse poverty induced conflict with one of raceā¦
Finally, perhaps most worrying of all is our own sense that in the UK we are āmuch betterā than most other countriesā¦ but one of the most telling recent illustrations was how the Remain campaign seemed to react to the various activities of the the Brexit leadersā¦ when confronted with some lies on a bus about the NHS, and a blatantly racist poster presented by Farage, they chose the Bus to make the biggest fuss aboutā¦ where was the real national outcry against Farage and his poster? there was a little string but not the level of national embarrassment that we should have expectedā¦ To me this said the Remain campaign, knew it would have more effect getting folks to consider the lies on the bus, to undermine Gove and Boris, than it would though āstirring upā the immigration issue based on a racist posterā¦
Would Farage have have had these are impact has his poster featured young fresh faced New Zealanders, Australians, even young Russian women all 'adding to the pressure on housing, on the NHS and services?.. No, Farage knew which buttons to press and appeal to a āhiddenā undercurrentā¦
How are you defining āraceā? We are all the same species, which some genotypic and phenotypic variation both between and within the āraceā definition. Before you ask this question, you need to define what āraceā means to youā¦ historically some have even differentiated religious beliefs in their determination racial purityā¦
The whole term āraceā is perhaps part of the problem, that we seek to label or sub categorise our species based clusters of genotypic variationā¦ its only ever been helpful to those into eugenics, or those who feel it gives them justification for their superiorities.
That is defined as an ethnic group, so how is that a race? As you can have folks with the same genotype from different culturesā¦ which are not classed as different āracesā?
its not a simple definition and I would argue that this is why its often unhelpful and its often used to define and segment when no such segment is necessaryā¦
I suggest you read up on genetic variation within and between your so called definition of races and ālearnā how the traditional view is no longer helpful or rational.
Put it this wayā¦ If you ran a DNA sequence on all the leaves on a single oak tree, the natural genetic variation between them would be greater than the genetic variation between so called races in human beings relative to the number and length of chromosomesā¦ Is a tree suddenly made up of multiple races? or is it that because the genotypic variation is not expressed phenotypically and so less easy to ālabelā?
Our labels of races, is simply because we CHOOSE to differentiate by phenotypic variation and cluster human beings because of it despite us being more genetically varied within these clusters than between themā¦
Its artificial because it suited historic purposesā¦
It makes perfect senseā¦ the law is based on observed phenotypic variationā¦ science says there is more genotypic variation within this segments than between them, but its just convenient to base it on how we lookā¦ which is part of problem because it emphasises differences that are irrelevant
You are missing the point somewhatā¦ being that whilst a legal definition is useful to determine if a criminal act has occurred, it is the very fact we are segmenting human beings based phenotypic variation (how the genotypic variation might be expressed, eg appearance), is not, in fact its counter intuitive to resolving the issue of equality. We persist in catagorising and labelling to suit our purposes when it is unnecessary and the scientific community would agree
Oh dearā¦ whoosh. The fact we need BLM is a result of the high level of remaining institutionalised racism that still exists built on years on ingrained classification of human beings based on visual appearance and assumptions (which are not valid scientifically)
As for āBlack and proudā - it is perhaps less helpful in this context as I suspect Dr M King would have preferred to proud of ones actions and behaviours and achievements rather than in skin colour
As I said at the start, not much point in continuing whilst there seems to be a desire to maintain a system of labelling and differentiation based on an phenotypic variation that has no scientific basis.
I would suggest that folks do read up on the concepts that race is a social construct with no biological basis and recognise that this continued use of labels will mean we never rid ourselves of this issueā¦
Again you are being suggestive as opposed to reasoningā¦ I may have an idealist view, but this is NOT what this is about. We ARE all visually different, and that is great and to be celebrated. What should NOT is classification of people based on that appearance when it has no scientific or biological basis. There is greater genotypic variation within your so called racial groups.
So a view becomes less valid because despots might find it unpopular? That is the point, the differentiation of peoples based purely on a social construct to validate their political models/approachesā¦
ā¦and there we have it. A clear, concise analysis of the issue, with solid recommendations for action which require no clarification and leave no room for misunderstanding. Top work!!! 
Nice to see you add something constructive to the discussion. What no offensive joke to add?
āconstructiveā, lol 
Itās constructive in the sense that youāre confronted with what many of your posts are. A giant wall of text.
Iāve done similar, but usually, even if there is something else to say, Iād rather keep things reader-friendly and then make the point later on.
Itās a forum. There is back and forth. If youāre losing people because they havenāt got the will to read your posts, youāre failing as a communicator.
Really, its not difficult to create a wall of text when you link 12 posts togetherā¦ bit ridiculous and idioticā¦ maybe I should do the same with all the bigoted shit posted on the āWokeā thread - might show some idiots up from what they are.
As for long posts, I tend to assume adults can read, have an attention span longer than a fucking gold fish and the capacity to absorb informationā¦ but then Must be mistaken.
Its not a fucking Pulitzer prize contest and I have never said I would win any awards for style of prose, but if you want a twitter bollox, then surely that is the place to stayā¦
Shame it challenges your intellect - best head back to some sick joke site, more your level I guessā¦
Better.
Shall we just tell jokes that donāt offend anyone?
If you have an issue with any content here, especially if you feel itās racist, flag it. Weāll review it.
Donāt store it up for ammunition.