Not having a go.
Having a discussion.
my experience has not stopped me and turned me into a rabid racist. I admit that having five blacks armed attacking me for a pittance was bad. The worse was when driving a 109 bus towards Croydon and a very large shit brickhouse tried mugging me whilst I was driving the bus. He was made angrier by the second because he was unable to reach the money inside the door and broke through it pushing me up against the window. I was unhurt but my worst fear was for the cars the bus hit before the bus stopped and obviously my passengers.
Oddly not one of the cars ever put in a claim against the bus company.
We have all had moments where we have had to put up with a certain amount of violence. Sometimes to our family. We react normally with bloody revengeful thoughts but they dissipate.
And PAP i donāt run scared if someone does not like my posts or me theirs. I will always try to be straight with any reply good or bad.
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Cheers @BaggySaint. I think weāre much richer for having decent discussions about difficult topics and much poorer for shouting them down.
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The way I see this overall is:- We were guilty of many acts of violence in the past. Many countries suffered at our hands and much was taken from them. People and valuables if we wanted it we took it. We were no better than many other countries in so far as we often protected the countries we then ran. None of this helps us today but it can help explain some of the feelings built up against us.
In no way though does it give freedom to exact revenge on us today. We have many things to change but most of all we must start by getting more ethnic people into high positions in the police and also in local councils and government. Let our BAME people see that we are trying to help bring equality all round.
Their are Black leaders that we should be using to calm the situation and help guide the move to a level playing field for all. We need them on board and must do all we can to stop the bloodshed.
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Can any BLM campaign win when the world is effectively run by āThe Eliteā? Do they care about the difficulties of life in inner Cities for anyone, let alone BAME communities.
Sure I hope BLM alters some mindsets, I REALLY hope it changes Police procedures in America, but it is going to take time and it needs to stay politicised but independent of left/right bullshit.
It needs to keep moving.
I come back to Taking a knee - wonderful & emotive. But does it still have an impact at the end of a year, or two, or three?
I believe it is a pivot point. What next?
How to change the narrative?
How to reach the Karens on FB and change the algorithms?
@BaggySaint had an old school stereotype experience so many others the same.
I had racist attacks that made me leave Dubai for being a British pig
I say again. We need a next step.
Oh & yes, Iām Gargantuaned
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Sadly wherever we go in the world there will be racism, tribe versus tribe is a part of life. Saints v Pompey is a weak example but every country suffers from it. News tells a regular story of warfare between tribes of same country.
There will always be rich and poor. Those that have and those that donāt. Always jealousy of others.
I was not going to post again, because it becomes difficult to ādiscussā what are IMHO fundamental nuances in this debate, that some folks simply wonāt see, yet I believe are incredibly importantā¦ But it has to be said IMHO
Lets start with the concept of freedom of choice to decide how āWEā protest against racism. To me the simple fact that we have a thread in which I would guess 100% are white 'privileged ā folks are discussing the various justifications for NOT supporting a form of protest is exactly part of the problemā¦ we want to play only by our own rules that make us more comfortable, as opposed to those determined by the very folks who have the biggest stake in the protest? Why is that?
Why is it for us as to determine how this protest should look? If we are truly supportive of these aims and are equally not happy with the status quo, then we start by not insisting the protest is wrongā¦ thats its becoming weaker, that its about choiceā¦ all the language that undermines itā¦ just as the āall lives matterā bullshit didā¦ white privileged folks looking to dictate the terms. Sorry, but if we are genuine about supporting this protest, we should be more concerned about ensuring it remains as valid and as high on the agenda as possible, not trying to own it and make it about our own choicesā¦
Next up, is a bit of a comment on BaggySaints language choices. I did not want to single anyone out, and I am doing so only as an example, not as a criticism of Baggy Saint Now if I am wrong, apologies, but the use of the correct terminology in this discussion is criticalā¦ a few examples:
Sentiment is solid, but āthemā and āwe should be usingā, āwe need them on boardā ā¦
This is the language of dictating the terms, of making it about our decisions and choices. Its very subtle, but we need to understand that this protest is also about the perception we give that once again us privilged white folks will dictate the future society
Next up, perhaps more significantly
Racism is not the same as tribalism and sorry but using a local football rivalry is a bit crass here. Tribal conflicts are typically driven by territory, poverty, religious intolerance etcā¦ Wars and hatred over ethnic (genetic) purity is something that is much more typical of our āmodernā western world - its roots in the slavery of the past, the misguided and ignorant sense of racial superiorityā¦Itās important not to confuse this. Its is also important not to confuse poverty induced conflict with one of raceā¦
Finally, perhaps most worrying of all is our own sense that in the UK we are āmuch betterā than most other countriesā¦ but one of the most telling recent illustrations was how the Remain campaign seemed to react to the various activities of the the Brexit leadersā¦ when confronted with some lies on a bus about the NHS, and a blatantly racist poster presented by Farage, they chose the Bus to make the biggest fuss aboutā¦ where was the real national outcry against Farage and his poster? there was a little string but not the level of national embarrassment that we should have expectedā¦ To me this said the Remain campaign, knew it would have more effect getting folks to consider the lies on the bus, to undermine Gove and Boris, than it would though āstirring upā the immigration issue based on a racist posterā¦
Would Farage have have had these are impact has his poster featured young fresh faced New Zealanders, Australians, even young Russian women all 'adding to the pressure on housing, on the NHS and services?.. No, Farage knew which buttons to press and appeal to a āhiddenā undercurrentā¦
Because breaking the law and needless rioting breaks communities further apart, for a start they affect the whole community not one specific one.
Rwanda?
Dafur?
Its not, but its better than where many come from, why is that?
Now youāre showing yourself to be closed minded, when was the last time Kiwiās rocked up in a rib with no money, couldnāt speak English, had no papers?
Theyāre different arguments, economic migrants and refugeeās are also vastly different, if youāre going to wade in, wade in with some form of fairness.
What is ābreaking the lawā about taking the knee, which is is after all the crux of the matterā¦ sitting at the back of the bus was breaking the law back in the 60sā¦ go tell Rosa Parksā¦ There is never an excuse for rioting and lootingā¦ but that is not part of this protestā¦ as you know
This is not āRACEā related - yes its genocide, but tribal in origin and as a result of artificial western introduced bordersā¦ of course its hideous, but its not part of this discussionā¦ you are looking to drive teh discussion in another directionā¦ which you seem to do a lot ofā¦
Yes, which is why they flee, and we should welcome, yet we dontā¦
Now you are in danger of showing your thoughts out loudā¦ plenty of economic migrants who have no papers, and cant speak Englishā¦ but if they want to gain from economic opportunity they soon learnā¦ you are suggesting they offer nothing to us, or are here for a scrounge? Maybe its you who needs to consider the language you use at the very leastā¦
Nothing but continuing to do so will weaken the discussion, it has to evolve from here.
The wiping out of the Tutsi was planned and had nothing to do with a border drawn, I doubt youāre nuanced enough to see thatā¦
So we are better and more attractive than many others, thank you for that admission, why?
Whoās they? And who are they gaining economic advantage from? I am not suggesting no one offers anything, I donāt believe anyone would come to this Country to scrounge, I think maybe you need to consider what the tories have done to the poorest in the poorest areas, ask them what they think, theyāre the ones who always get imposed.
Why isnāt it race related?
Are all black Africans one race for you?
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How are you defining āraceā? We are all the same species, which some genotypic and phenotypic variation both between and within the āraceā definition. Before you ask this question, you need to define what āraceā means to youā¦ historically some have even differentiated religious beliefs in their determination racial purityā¦
The whole term āraceā is perhaps part of the problem, that we seek to label or sub categorise our species based clusters of genotypic variationā¦ its only ever been helpful to those into eugenics, or those who feel it gives them justification for their superiorities.
each of the major groupings into which humankind is considered (in various theories or contexts) to be divided on the basis of physical characteristics or shared ancestry.
āpeople of all races, colours, and creedsā
synonyms:
ethnic group Ā· racial type Ā· (ethnic) origin
- the fact or condition of belonging to a racial division or group, or the qualities or characteristics associated with this.
āpeople of mixed raceā Ā· āissues of race and national identityā
- a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
āwe Scots were a bloodthirsty race thenā
synonyms:
- a group or set of people or things with a common feature or features.
āthe upper classes thought of themselves as a race apartā
synonyms:
group Ā· type Ā· sort Ā· class Ā· kind Ā· variety Ā· ilk Ā· genre Ā· cast Ā· style Ā· brand Ā· vintage Ā· order Ā· breed Ā· species Ā· generation
I would argue that different tribes in Africa fall under the definition of ethnic groups - therefore if someone from one ethnic group eg Zulu abuses someone for belonging to another ethnic group eg Xhosa - then that person is being racist
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Thatās your opinion, scientifically incorrect but I hold your opinion as valid as anyone elseās I suppose.
There is no racism anywhere else other than where whites live, to simply question or argue this makes you yourself a racist irrespective to whether this is true or not.
That is defined as an ethnic group, so how is that a race? As you can have folks with the same genotype from different culturesā¦ which are not classed as different āracesā?
its not a simple definition and I would argue that this is why its often unhelpful and its often used to define and segment when no such segment is necessaryā¦
Maybe give everyone the benefit of your "scientificāā knowledge* then instead of merely being a twat?
*more than just scouting wikipedia by the wayā¦
I love it when you get abusive, you simply donāt have the capacity to discuss without throwing your toys out the pram.
There are different races of the World, scientific fact, not some opinion of Western liberal luxury, your opinion is incorrect no matter how much you genuinely think the World is one, race shouldnāt divide but it does and we need to fight that.
Accept and learn.
Oh the irony in thatā¦
The questions was a simple oneā¦ how do you define race and it is important if addressing questions pertaining to itā¦ something your small mind seem unable to understand so you say folks are wrong without sharing what you believe to be correctā¦
haha patronising wind up merchant = twat, sorry if that is abusive, buts its meant to be
Well I start with what science defines it as not Tarquin at the hummus shop on a guilt trip.